My entire point is simply that neither side says the opposition won a debate.  And your entire point is wrong, as has been shown.  I offered up a relatively current example of an arguably clear case of a vice presidential candidate winning (or at the very least not coming close to losing) and the majority of Democrats still gave their candidate the win. You dismissed it because you’re “only talking about presidential debates,” but the exact same dynamics are in play and the exact same reasoning applies.  Then its irrelevant, because weve already gone over multiple examples of dems acknowledging a loss. If its the exact same reasoning, then Ive already proven my case and demonstrated your position is wrong. For clarity, I was clear in the beginning that both sides have their partisans/loyalists. That will always be true. But my position is its far worse for the republicans, and the reasoning for that is that you will never find a case where a majority of republicans agree that their presidential candidate lost. Meanwhile, you will find cases where democrats do, therefore proving democrats are capable of acknowledging a loss while republicans are not. That doesnt mean that a majority of democrats will always call a debate correctly ,but it does mean republicans will never call a lost debate correctly.  I pointed out that even in the Obama versus Romney one you sited earlier, a majority of Democrats believed Obama won. The same source you provided said the following,  The vast majority of Republican voters who watched the debate (95%) say that Romney did the better job, and many Democratic voters agree. Democrats are split in their assessment of who did better: 45% say Romney, 44% Obama. So youre wrong. And again I challenge you to find any  presidential debate in the last 20 years where republicans even come close to being that split. I doubt youll ever find one where less than 70% believe their candidate won. And I know you will never find one where its less than 50%. You can argue until youre blue in the face, move the goalpost, strawman etc. but what Im telling you is that theres TWO examples in the last 20 years where democrats were able to acknowledge a loss either by majority or plurality. And I further state you will never see that from republicans. Period.  And again, republicans are generally bad debaters anyways. Especially where Trump is concerned which covers every dem vs repub debate going back to 2016. But they appeal to a base that doesnt care.