You did not give two examples. Your example of Obamas first debate was still considered a win by the majoritg of democrats.  This is the third time youve ignored the statement – from your own source, proving you wrong on that. Why is that? No one cares about VP debates. Its pointless to bring this up when weve already covered presidential debates outlining exactly what Ive stated. But just for funsies, you are free to show me any presidential OR VP debate where the republicans were even within 10% of being as split as the democrats were in Obamas debate with Romney. Dont even need to bring up Bidens debate to show my point.