r/IBEW:

u/BrimstoneOmega

Yes. Absolutely. Going undercover is one thing. Actively using subterfuge to violate people’s rights is literally gestapo tactics.
u/BrimstoneOmega

This is a well thought out articulation of your point. Thank you for this. I get everything you’re saying, and agree with all of it but the last. The law says they get those rights. The constitution, the very foundation of this country, the ideals we preach and enforce around the world, has literally enshrined those rights, to every one. “Under the jurisdiction thereof”. This means if you can be arrested, you have those rights. All of them. The only people that do not have the same rights are foreign dignitaries with diplomatic immunity. Who ironically have more rights than you or I in our own country.
u/BrimstoneOmega

Lol, those shows are disgusting. They violate people’s rights in EVERY episode. They torture people. They illegally break into homes.
u/BrimstoneOmega

This is how you prove my statement wrong, or at least not so plain and simple. Thank you. But calling them leeches, when they are definitely not, is also wrong. I can agree with you that it’s not so black and white. I can agree with you that things are VERY poorly handled. I can agree that large sums of money are spent on these issues. But they are being picked up at work sites. They are not lazy and worthless. They are being arrested in court, because they are trying to do things legally. They are paying, over “several years” closer to trillions and not billions in taxes. They are not leeches. They are people, trying to live the American Dream of a better life. And ALL people in the US have rights. That is what the law says. All I’ve been saying is they deserve those rights, but they are being denied them. Illegally.
u/BrimstoneOmega

I have that white privilege myself too so I can’t speak to any of that. I also don’t know any members of MS-13 or any El Salvadorian refugees, so I also cannot speak to that. What I can speak to though is the plight of my ancestors. My family came here straight off the boat from Ireland escaping persecution, only to be labeled as dregs of society, leeches, and face just the same sort of persecution, if less violent, here in the US. This is why you see a lot of Irish people at immigration marches. This is why you see the country of Ireland standing up for the people of Gaza. Because, even though you can’t get much whiter than the Irish, Once Upon a Time there was no white privilege for them. But now we have a new enemy to hate. The disgusting vile Irish gremlins are fine now. Because they tell us we have a new set of people that are destroying our lives.
u/BrimstoneOmega

That’s legit. I know how these reddit arguments go, especially when other people jump in (I stated as one of those other people).
u/BrimstoneOmega

Uhhhhhhhh……… Are you arguing with me, or against me? Because that’s exactly what I’m saying. See, the thing is, they ARE arresting “natives”. I’m not sure if that’s a reference to Native Americans or just native born Americans, but they are arresting both. Illegally. And without due process. I’ve never said they shouldn’t. I never said they can’t. I just said a lot of them are breaking much more important laws than misdemeanors to do so. And being an illegal immigrant is a misdemeanor.
u/BrimstoneOmega

You can not prove a negative. And, by the way, my whole argument is that they need to prove these things. That’s why I preemptively gave you proof. All you give is rhetoric.
u/BrimstoneOmega

Yeah, that was a bad one, so was the cops being gang members.
u/BrimstoneOmega

Thanks for saying the truth. MS-13 was founded in the US. It began its operations in the US. It contains many US citizens. What you failed to state was why they organized in the first place, which was to protect those refugees from the other US gangs that were not so welcoming to those fleeing the civil war. What I’m not saying, if the interest of the whole truth should be respected, was that it was illegal immigrants that founded it. But there should be still asked the question of why we’re they deemed as illegal immigrants? They likely should have been granted asylum, but were not, and thus we’re somewhat forced to become illegal. Also, in respect to the full truth, the reason why MS-13 spread to become an international gang is due to deportations. If the members were imprisoned in the US and never sent to El Salvador, would the gang be as strong as it is today?